discussion about clearing members kicking and stats

i start this discussion, cause we need sometimes to kick inactives to make room for new members. we are full now and wait for some high class players ninja finds.

my proposal:
1. stats including points gain and lp gain every 3 days.
2. for first 3 stats period we use 200 lp gain as the border line and check how many points net gain this is. after these 3 periods we use points net value as the main
3. if someone goes below line, will get warned and have 3 days till next stats to do better.
4. our req are 200 lp in a week. so in 3 days it is 85 lp.
5. 3 days period is way better than 7 days cause you can have free places twice a week, plus every player has a chance to do better if he is going low.

tell me your opinions.

stats for last 3 days
https://www.evernote.com/shard/s2/sh/afcf65c9-c527-4efb-9d1a-11ad066170a7/80ef62d5b67bf2bbb77d2e1f61b05805

if youre ok with that, i will publish them in general

Didn't expect myself to get such a low score

lol, a lot of officers have to be kicked as well.

i looked at the points and loyalty once again and i think the the only req we need to have is to be on plus with points net. if everyone get points net above 0, then we are fine.

Hi.

I'm not sure that making the requirement pr 3 days is a good solution.
Since our real life situations are very different between our members, and some of us might be able to play the mostly in the weekend (like me), and not so much in week days.
With a 3 day period, i think a lot of members will fail the tests in weekdays and double/triple/quadruple it in weekend.
This might lead to a lot of warnings due to weekdays periods.

What i suggest we do is that we have a Monday - Wednesday period and a Thursday - Sunday period.
New players (tryouts) need to deliver in both periods, and non tryouts need to delver pr week as before.
The posting on Wednesday period will give none tryouts an indication on how they are doing so far this week.

A tryout period should last a month (4 weeks)

When a tryout fails the requirements, we have two options, kick or keep. If we still keep them, we need to make it clear that this is their last change and 4 new weeks apply.
When a member fails, i think we need a system that looks at the overall. Of course we contact the person in question and ask if there is any reason for the drop in net points.
Also i think that we need to allow a 10% failure rate on members pr week. The number can be adjusted, but i think this number should include everything. Holidays, , sickness and other stuff.
If over 10% failure, then you get kicked.
This mean that you get 1 failure week pass for every 10 week you deliver.
I suggest all old members get 1 free week to start with.
Failure week pass can be stacked and remember if you need 3 week of failure during the summer, you need to save them up.
Max stack can be discussed but no more than 10 i think.

This should take care of the long term and tryout problem.
What is left is the sabotage and people quits playing the game.
I think that this should lead to kick at once.

I want your feedback on this.

thx for quick reply.

plex0n, i think you should ask yourself 2 questions:
1. do you want our faction to get in top 10 and stay there for long time?
2. do you want us to stop depending on 1 person, on our way up?


if you answer yes and yes - what does it mean for us? my opinion:
- less casual play, more playing as pro. weekend players are not the ones we want.
you can set your and kani's account as irremovable and hidden in stats, but really demand those 200lp/week from others. i know times are different and its muich harder to get real pro players, but i had 25 players giving me 600-700 stam daily in top 10, and 5 rotating - all for more than a month. so it can be done. the only value a player gives to a faction are points. points = activity*(skill+cardpool).
in todays stats we have 14 players that have points net below 0. that means if they werent there, we would have better results in wars.
- flexibility in exchanging members. if someone stops playing for few days without really good reason, he should be expelled.
if you want to kick once a month, soon you will have a lot of dead accounts keeping places.
stats every 3 days + 1 warning system gives you 6 days before player can be kicked and it doesnt mean he will be kicked - kick only if we have replacement and player doesnt have good reason to play less.
you are right that there are some players that do better in weekends and some that play more in weekdays. but still they have to do 200lp/week, or >0 net points, if we choose points method
- we have ninjastriker. if we give him a good backup, we can score over 40000 in big wars. but we need to go pro to do it. and a big wb guy is essential to enter top 3.

if you answer yes and no, my opinion:
ninja will burn out in some time and vikingz will fall down, losing most of key players, disappointed. you will be back in the point you were before ninja's time.

if you choose other answers, you can kick me out and find replacement. i cant play without trying to be the best.

Hi.

To start i'll answer your question.

1. Yes
2. Yes

I'm all for kicking members that don't do their share of the load.
Some members have real life situations that makes them not able to play every day at 18 hours.
So if we look at todays requirement at 210lp pr weeek that is avg. 30 lp pr day.
1 lp = 1 win either in fight or surge mode.
Since we are fighting harder and harder enemies, it will become more difficult to get 30 wins without losses.
So i would say that a good player will have to do 4 refills on avg. pr day to make the 30 wins.
4 refills pr day pr week = 2800 stamina.
Since we do not require use of wb in the rules, i will base all of this with out use of wb.
There is 24h pr day and 7 days a week giving us a total of 10080 stamina at max pr week. Since we need sleep i will subtract 2520 stamina points lost to sleep (6 hours pr day).
This gives a player 7560 stamina points to work with to manage to get our requirement of 210 lp pr week.
So if we do it in percent we ask our members to contribute 2800/7560*100 = 37% if available stamina for them.
If we subtract work/school hours this percent goes much higher.
I assume that school/work = 8 hours/5days a week = 2400 stamina
7560 - 2400 = 5160 stamina to work from after sleep, work/school.
2800/5160*100 = 54,26% of available stamina used to make the requirement.

Of course i want to see this faction evolve and i hope that we get players that can contribute even more than the requirements. But since we have requirements, i want to base it on that, if not we can abandon requirements
at all. I've not said that the requirement level is correct for the current situation we are in, and i am willing to make the changes if needed.
I've started the process to change from lp to the use of net points, this is that I see we would benefit MUCH more from net gain rather than lp.
I hope you all agree with me on this.

If we base it on a 3 day interval, i think this will cause more frustration from the members than let them feel that they have some flexibility to chose when they make their requirement.
All members should know about the requirement, and there should not be any surprise if they get kicked for not meeting it. I've not set in motion a warning system, so the kicking time will be as you pointed out the same.
We could post daily listings on the net gain and numbers of fights fought.

Regarding net points, and where to put the new requirement, it should be a combination of two factors. minimum number of fights and minimum net point gained.
This will keep to rule safe from just reaching the net points in a few fights and then stop fighting. Not that i thin any player would exploit a weakness like this, but we need to be clear on the rules if we are going to kick people based on the rules. I will not accept kicking without a reason.
Where the new limits should be on number of fights and net points gained pr week, i want to hear what all of you think, before i settle my mind on it.

When it comes to the failure week pass, i'm thinking on upcoming holidays and next year. We need to set a system now so its ready when the summer comes.
I will not have to do the same as this summer when i kicked from 30-40 members down to only some few core players.
So i think a system with a failure week pass would work fine. Of course i assume players will play when ever they can also during a failure week pass, but we need to be able to accept that members have real life situation that require time, like exams, vacation and other stuff. I feel it would be very wrong to kick a member that have played and delivered all winter for not making it one week in the spring even if he plays as much as he can during that week. This system is a great improvement from todays system, where they just post that they will be gone or reduce activity.
To use a failure week pass, it must of course be posted in a thread that they are using it that week.

Back to what we all want and what it takes to get there.
I know we need members to deliver at pretty high rate to make top 1.
Current goal is to get us in top 10 and we are almost there.
When we make top 10, i'll set a new goal for us to reach, and i will make necessary adjustments all the time.
Next goal is to make everybody use surge and forget about the fight mode. I think its time, since we have a good base of members now. They are mostly level 40+.
There should not be any reason for not surging from a level 40 and above.

Currently we do not require usage of wb, but this will change in the future i guess.
The requirement will be to get specific cards that might cost wb. Wb for fighting isn't part of the plan now.
Since august we have been doing great, and a lot of creds to ninja for his contribution, and of course the officers that recruited the right people and made us stronger every day.
We (officers and I) have always said that the goal must be that we get activity back up and a good solid base of very good players so ninja don't have to use wb alone to win wars.
We will make this promise to ninja come true, and we have some road left to travel before we are there.

For those of you that think it is strange that i don't play as much as before. I can answer with this.
I work at my family business that i spent the last 5 years build from scratch to a quite successful store and carpenter firm. I work at the store 6 days a week and sometime i need to work sundays also.
Normal work hours in norway is 8-16 or 9-17. I work from 9-20 on avg. on weekdays and 10-18 on saturday.
Perhaps now u ask why i am the leader with such little personal time left? Well i find tyrant to be a very satisfying and relaxing when i come home. The first ting i do is that i logon and check what we did and how we are doing. I read up on the forum, but i have stopped reading up on tyrants kong forum. I would like that you guys linked me to stuff i need to know about that otherwise will keep me out of the loop.
During work, i will try to logon if possible, but from september to christmas it is busiest time of the year at the shop. Don't make the mistake that i don't think on how and when we can make changes that will benefit this faction. I stated in september and i think i stated it again in october that i will not be that active (wars fighting) as i was during the summer (almost 24/7). I also said that i was willing to step down if anyone saw this as a problem.

Regarding manixen account. As most of you know this is my sons account, he is 10 almost 11 years old now, and i've spoken to him, and told him that i might need to kick him from the faction (that was a hard conversation).
Of course he responded with that he will make the requirements, but i know that he will not, since he have to do homework and other stuff before playing tyrant.
When i let him play in the start, it was meant to be challenging for him, as strategy is something that my family is strong at. I've not given him much wb's so that i don't feel it wrong to abandon this account.
I also used to login with his account after his bedtime, and play both. Since my time have been limited i've not done so in the past two months.
I clearly see that he is taking up a slot, and i will make it free when needed for the faction.

Regarding smoki, i will demote him from officer status, since he haven't replayed to any of the posting regarding him for a week now. He landed on 70 wins during ninjas contest and that his low.
I've not made contact with him, and if some of you know whats up with him, i would like to know. When he is demoted, consider him as a regular member.

This posting took me about an hour to write, so i use a lot of time on this game even if its not on the battlefield.
If i see we have control in war, i choose not to fight in it and spend time on other matters for the faction.

Plex0n

hello all,

I think i need to share my opinion on this matter to. For one. I, like everyone else want this faction the climb as high in the rankings as possible,
however my quetion is at what cost? I mean ofcourse i want to be the nr. 1 but i also want to have a life beside the game and not spend
every free minute i have on tyrant. (And i think alot of wikingz think this way)

That being said i agree with plex0n, I think we should keep the 7 day period. Because this gives weekend player a fair chance. I also think we should continue to improve our strategy and activity measure methods slow but steady. I mean it wasnt that long ago that i made the forum, before then we didn't even have that.
So I don't think it's smart to rush into making alot of changes because that might backfire. (alost of people not accepting this and leaving.)

But I'm not going to repeat everything plex0n said because that's a waste of time, my main point is Thelostwikingz stands for a certain playstyle.
When we implement all these changes kfsw suggest we will lose this playstyle and turn into a (bad) MoM copy. And face it people who like that style
and are that active will join MoM instead of wikingz.

side note:
@kfsw I think i speak on behalf of everyone when i say that you have contributed an awefull lot to the faction already and i'm not saying your ideas are bad.
I just think Wikingz isnt ready to be the nr. 1 faction yet. And i think this strategy plex0n is using (small steps) works best for us. But that's my opinion

reply to plex:

210 lp/week is great for me. and switching to net points gain is great, but everyday stats are necessary for it (you lose points when you sleep, hard to keep track on it without a complex system)
i think top 10 is made for people that can drop stam 3-4 times a day. surging 100 stam takes ~10-20 minutes i think, so its not THAT big contribution. but it surely ties people somehow.

i called the thread "discussion about clearing" cause i think that the best thing we can give to members are clear and strict rules of contribution.
we can do 4-5 days stats with 1 warning, which gives us 8-10 days before someone gets kicked minimum.

my proposal of kicking procedure:
1. we show stats on forums to all members
2. choose 5 persons from down of the list.
3. send them pm in kong with warning (use predefined mail example)
4. check next stats.
5. if they go to red zone again(5 persons on the bottom) , should be replaced in first opportunity.

you gave me fresh look on sth i didnt think of - surging as an obligation and number of fights fought.
1st - i dont agree that surging obligation is a good idea - if someone gets his points on plus fighting, he still gives a lot to faction. check me and mark0628 - we mostly fight and are far above red line.
2nd - we have now 3 factors that somhow measure activity - lp gain, net points and battles fought
a) lp gain gives us info about fights/surges won + defenses won. we cant measure how much points player looses.
b) net points give us clean info about players usefulness to faction. with no info about number of gameplays, wins or defenses. its all compiled into 1 very important number.
c) battles fought = stamina used. nothing more but still a lot. if someone declares 20 refills a week, we can check if he is telling the truth.

i will post all 3 factors in stats, and set the primary stat as points net if all agree

and the rest - we all have rl and i like it much. most of us are adults and i like it too. tbh i dont think leader should be no1 in points net table. leader must be a most stable person with a growth strategy imho.

reply to kani:
we can do 10 days period with warning after 5 days. warning gives member chance to work. in this system in 3 stats periods you will have 2 weekends. and still we choose 5 absolutely worst people, not all below the line. i insist on warnings cause everyone have to have chance to do better. and if they dont, they usually have time to say goodbye and quit by themselves.
if you want smart rush, we can just publish stats first few rounds. but we still need to kick inactives on some basis to make room for new people.

you may be right about MoM copy, but i prefer to compare to IFS, since they are real heroes in this game.
these changes i propose are helping "the management" to track value of members and if someone goes below, we replace him. everyone do that, but we can have better tools and a standarized procedure for it. nothing more.

I can really see I haven't been home much this weekend!
Plus, my surge deck need some re-amping.

You are absolutely right about the fact that clear rules are good for both the faction and the members.

Quote :

my proposal of kicking procedure:
1. we show stats on forums to all members
2. choose 5 persons from down of the list.
3. send them pm in kong with warning (use predefined mail example)
4. check next stats.
5. if they go to red zone again(5 persons on the bottom) , should be replaced in first opportunity.

1. I think we should remove the officers from this list because we don't want members rioting over under achieving officers.
2. I like this part alot because this way people can't feel picked on or anything
3. we can also do this by @mail or forum because not everyone reads there kong messages;)
5. good idea;)

If we can make this procedure perfect and get all officers okay stamp on it with should implement it.
One final thing i want to put out there is, it is just a game we may not forget this;)

I'm updating my previous post due to the recent changes:

1. Future recruitment and current status of members:

For future recruitment, we will state that we want 280LP/week, but internally, we'll settle for 210LP. We cannot be accepting level 20-30 anymore, I think the minimum level I'm willing to go is 35. We haven't been doing this, but they need to at least try to be in our channel and hang with us.

For now I think we can ask for a 210LP/week for our current members, save those under 40, they might have more difficult as we take on tougher opponents.
We will observe those between level 25-40, and try to help them as best as we can. For now, they seem to be doing well, but we should also extend a helping hand to them whenever possible.
Those between the abovementioned level communicate with us in the channel regularly. We want them to stick with us. These guys are good at the moment: pikinator, q423, rexahl.


2. Housekeeping:

We have more or less cleared out the inactive members in our faction. We seem to have rounded up a good active team to date, and we are all able to chip in a healthy positive net point per member to carry us to 10k per war, and we can see that ninj doesn't have to WB as much of late. We have also reached 85-95% activity levels, the highest I've seen so far has bene 95% activity levels. We should maintain it at 90%. What's left for us now is to coordinate our defence decks, so that we are as versatile as possible. That way, facing top factions, we have the ability to switch our def decks mid or even 3 times in the duration of a war. On top of that, we should also try to get everyone to at least be able to have at their disposal, 2 different kinds of surge decks, that can be used as effective fight decks.

As of now, our faction has a higher concentration of members around levels 40 - 60. I think that overtime, as they get more depth in their card pool, we can encourage them to switch over to surging. Of course, it is not a must for them to have WB Promo cards.



3. The direction the Faction wants to go:

We might have lost good members like fade and Scott, but given the external circumstances, we will make it to the top 10 easily. According to ninj, there'll be more new members joining us soon, and these are experienced top-faction level players.

While we are working our way into the top 10, let's try to solidify our foundations in the mean time. Let's try to get everyone to use the forums regularly. The recent WB contest has shown that we have a good handful of surgers who can definitely carry the faction to a solid start within the first 2 hours, and possibly against the top 5 factions.



Conclusion:

Our short term goals are more or less met. For now, we can wrap up the remainder of our short term goals and look forward. With luck and lots of hard work, we'll become a top 5.

many lines of text to read, i think it shows well our commitment to the faction.

so summarizing, we want to achieve highest goals, not too quick though. plus we still want to be a group of nice guys that have real lives.

i suggest starting from tomorrow with:
1. ninja stops suddenly booting people. i know some of these guys suck and deserve it, but we must give them chance to do better or to leave by themselves.
2. i do stats every 5 days including net points gain as main stat.
a) i draw a red line diving players with + points from these - points. so everyone can easily see how good they are
b) 5 players from the bottom of the table get marked as red and receive warnings by pm, forum message and faction chat.
c) officers + plex not included in the stats. i will publish separate stats for us, informational. still i feel that excluding 9 people from stats is quite a lot. my proposal is to either downgrade some officers or still have some req for management
3. warnings pattern: "according to stats from last 5 days (link here), you did one of the lowest scores. you have 5 days till next stats to do better results"
4. if someone gets second warning in a row, or has 2 warnings in 3 stats period, he/she should be kicked


all agree?

1. While ninja does "suddenly" boot people, he does not boot without rhyme or reason. His eviction of members so far have been justified. However, kfsw is right, we cannot be so ruthless, and we should always give our members a chance to prove themselves.

2. I think that it's great of kfsw to do the stats as per period. Once my time is freed up, I'll try to help compile the list. In the meantime, it'd be good to set up a proper roster of duties of each officer, as has been the case when I first joined this faction. I don't think it's fair to pile all the work on kfsw alone. All of us officers have to try to chip in and help.

2 b) Agreed.
c) Contentious. Officers *can* be allowed a bit more leeway, but just as well, officers have to make up for it. If I'm not wrong, plex himself has said that if he doesn't meet the standard, he also knows for himself that he has to make up for it. We'll have to downgrade some officers, that's for sure, but at the moment, there is only one extra function of the officer in the faction, and that is the declaration of war. Other ad-hoc duties are mostly on the forum or stats. I hope we can move forward towards TC's system of weekly stats update.

3/4. Agreed. This has to be made known to the faction, in as a nice but firm way as possible, that the officers will make a mental note of who has not been performing, and that it is the responsibility of members themselves to make up for the shortfall they have during their absence. If it persists, then one of us would have to try to reach out to him/her. If there is no reply after (agreed period of time, let us make a decision on this), then we will proceed to boot him/her out of faction.

In that sense, especially with point 4, our warnings have to be real, if not we'd be issuing warnings very often. Even with 2nd warning, we could also debate amongst ourselves if we should keep the member before really booting him/her. If we do decide to keep, the 3rd warning would result in an automatic kicking.

screw:
ad. 1 i agree it is all done after checking, but still i prefer to check in smaller periods and warn people, than just kick them.
ad. 2 my system for giving officers in kfsw destroyers was: everyone became officers after getting 1000 lp. i had a core group of 4 people, who were assigned to choose targets. if no one could be at the end of war, target was chosen before and written in the faction chat for "common" officers. i did it cause the threat of "catfacing", which was quite common back in the days.

what we can do here: make a group of ~6 officers from different timezones assigned only to start wars, and "managment group" that contributes more. managment group has its own stats, like i wrote before, and has a group of jobs to do. each job should be given to 2 officers, so depending on free time they have, one of them does it.

so screw agrees. i awit for the rest. i'd like to do ifrst stats tomorrow, like i wrote

Hi kfsw.

As i promised to u in kong chat, i would come back to this thread.

After thinking about this a lot the last two days, i've come to the conclusion that we can run this system for now, and see how it works out.

We run interval at 5 days. Since we are not kicking anyone with one warning, weekend players should manage this system also.

I think that all members that get negative net gain should get a warning, not only the 5 worst.

If a player gets 2 warnings on row without any reason for it, we should kick that player.
If we decide that he gets a new week to improve and he fails, we kick him.

If there is fewer than 5 members getting negative net points? Should we warn the remaining lowest plus net gain members, or not?
This can be solved by setting a net gain pr 5 days requirement. I would like an input on what amount net gained points we should set.
I was thinking on 200 net points pr day on avg = 1000 net points pr test period.

We should change the rules so they are adjusted to the new changes.
Anyone up for writing a complete new rules set, easy for me to edit it in?
If not i will do this in the weekend, or perhaps before if i manage.

thx for reply
>>I think that all members that get negative net gain should get a warning, not only the 5 worst.
negative net gain will happen if we will have a lot of def wars. thats why i think using the bottom 5 guys rule.

>>If there is fewer than 5 members getting negative net points? Should we warn the remaining lowest plus net gain members, or not?
>>This can be solved by setting a net gain pr 5 days requirement. I would like an input on what amount net gained points we should set.
>>I was thinking on 200 net points pr day on avg = 1000 net points pr test period.
once we set the bottom 5 rule working, it will adjust to power of faction always pointing weakest links. it worked in kfswd, but like ohio said it was a "boot camp", so i leave the decision to you. i like the rule cause you dont have to change it ever. it just adjusts, always points 5 weakest links.
and points net vary much from number of defense wars going, using absolute values may give trouble.

I clearly see that point to the last 5 will always make us focus on our weakest link, and that is good.
But for example when/fi the 5 weakest link all produced like 10k net. i feel it wrong to warn them.

So we should set a safe level at some net points. like 5k pr 5 days ? or something. Open for suggestions.

i think we should just consider it open. if there is a situation that the last 5 all do positive net points, then we talk if we want to warn them. we can compare them to average or look at other stats