The Lost Wikingz
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.


Wikingz meetingplace
 
HomeLatest imagesSearchRegisterLog in

 

 surging academy - switching decks

Go down 
4 posters
AuthorMessage
kfsw
First Lieutenant
First Lieutenant



Posts : 121
Join date : 2011-11-30

surging academy - switching decks Empty
PostSubject: surging academy - switching decks   surging academy - switching decks EmptyThu Dec 08, 2011 11:00 am

another topic i want to discuss:

HOW OFTEN TO CHANGE DECKS DURING SURGING?


my point of view:

war lasts 6h. this is 360 stamina + 100 on start. so you have maximum 4 and a half stam bar to drop.

i always try to use 1 deck during whole stamina drop. i think i should try to memorize enemy decks, but i dont have time for it, so i check win/loss ratio after dropping stam and decide if i want to switch decks.

if i get irritated and impatient, i usually try to switch decks 2-3 times during 1 stamina drop, which always lowers my ratio and i grow even more impatient.


what are your methods? please discuss
Back to top Go down
ScrapBrain




Posts : 2
Join date : 2011-12-08

surging academy - switching decks Empty
PostSubject: Re: surging academy - switching decks   surging academy - switching decks EmptyThu Dec 08, 2011 1:22 pm

At current times, I only use one deck, but that's because my cardpool is more limited at this point to the rest of you guys. Once I get further along, I plan on making notes of decklists i face against and compile a list with the names. Then use a deck that has the highest average win rate against the decks we are going against.
Back to top Go down
w_alloy
sergeant
sergeant



Posts : 68
Join date : 2011-10-30

surging academy - switching decks Empty
PostSubject: Re: surging academy - switching decks   surging academy - switching decks EmptyThu Dec 08, 2011 2:57 pm

(for summary skip to last paragraph, but I think the theory is important)

In poker there is a common phenomenon that often causes otherwise good players to play poorly called "results oriented thinking". What happens is a player will make a good but risky play, like bluffing with a draw, and it happens to fail a number of times in given evening or week. The next time the player is in that situation they will often just fold and avoid the risk, even though it would have made them money in the long run. At a certain point every professional player realizes that analyzing play based on money won or lost is usually counter productive (without using computer tools) because the human mind is so bad at taking in information where randomness plays a big part that it is inevitable you will end up getting tricked by the randomness into playing badly.

Bringing this closer to Tyrant, imagine that in front of you are ten weighted coins where the odds of getting heads on a flip ranges from 45% to 55% (somewhat analogous to surging). If you flip each coin 10 times and are asked to choose which has the highest chance of getting heads, odds of you picking the best coin are going to be about the same as if you picked blind. Even with 40 flips the odds of finding the best coin are slim.

You might be thinking, "So what if we could easily be wrong about which coin is best? In this case the results are all you have." This brings me to my main point: in Tyrant, just like in poker, the results of a small number of battles is not all we have:
-Evaluate decks is an extremely powerful tool as long as you have some decent deck lists. Ordered mode allows close approximations of surging especially when fudge factors are used to account for the extra strategic options available to a human.
-The experience of other players allows pooled knowledge that can defeat otherwise insurmountable sample size issues.
-Experience built up over days against other factions allows decent sample sizes. More often than not 200 battles against other factions with a given deck is more predictive of future results against a certain faction than 20 battles against that faction. The superior sample size far outweighs the variation caused by the deck makeup of a specific faction.

I believe that if a deck is worth using once it's usually worth using at least fifty times. I can count on one hand the number of times I have switched decks in the middle of a war because a faction had decks that countered mine, and I believe that almost everyone overestimates how well they can gauge the decks of a faction after something like twenty battles (without notes). When Ninja had his contest, I believe a significant factor in my victory was sticking with my SC deck through bad stretches when other players would have switched. I think recently showing the same stubbornness with Ogres has also helped my results.
Back to top Go down
Dustangel
corporal
corporal



Posts : 33
Join date : 2011-12-05

surging academy - switching decks Empty
PostSubject: Re: surging academy - switching decks   surging academy - switching decks EmptyThu Dec 08, 2011 4:55 pm

The funny thing in your example with coins, is that even if people have only 10 flips with each one, and they would pick the one that flips best, on average that would be a better decision than picking any one at random. So if I'm getting a lot of bad matchups over 10 or 5 first fights, it makes sense to assume that current war is more weighted towards bad matchups. That doesn't mean that you should immediately switch decks though, because the amount of bad matchups can be not enough to warrant lowering the average win% by using the second best deck.
Back to top Go down
w_alloy
sergeant
sergeant



Posts : 68
Join date : 2011-10-30

surging academy - switching decks Empty
PostSubject: Re: surging academy - switching decks   surging academy - switching decks EmptyFri Dec 09, 2011 12:53 am

Dustangel wrote:
The funny thing in your example with coins, is that even if people have only 10 flips with each one, and they would pick the one that flips best, on average that would be a better decision than picking any one at random. So if I'm getting a lot of bad matchups over 10 or 5 first fights, it makes sense to assume that current war is more weighted towards bad matchups. That doesn't mean that you should immediately switch decks though, because the amount of bad matchups can be not enough to warrant lowering the average win% by using the second best deck.

Sure, but the main point of my post is there is lots of other information about how good which decks are which is going to usually trump the info gained from those ten fights. The only exception, as you allude to in your last line, is when the prior information is telling you that the best two decks are very close in performance.
Back to top Go down
kfsw
First Lieutenant
First Lieutenant



Posts : 121
Join date : 2011-11-30

surging academy - switching decks Empty
PostSubject: Re: surging academy - switching decks   surging academy - switching decks EmptyFri Dec 09, 2011 10:06 am

i think that a lot of wikingz are switching decks after they fail. good to know that there are some players that dont change decks
Back to top Go down
Sponsored content





surging academy - switching decks Empty
PostSubject: Re: surging academy - switching decks   surging academy - switching decks Empty

Back to top Go down
 
surging academy - switching decks
Back to top 
Page 1 of 1
 Similar topics
-
» big problem with surging
» Surging our enemies
» defense decks organization
» best decks mission 89-119
» Siege on kor decks

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
The Lost Wikingz :: Tyrant :: General-
Jump to: