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 Defense gauntlet

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Dustangel
corporal
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Posts : 33
Join date : 2011-12-05

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PostSubject: Defense gauntlet   Defense gauntlet EmptySun Dec 25, 2011 6:43 am

Does anyone use EvaluateDecks simulator to test their surge deck ideas against a broad spectrum of defense decks? If so, what is your set of defense decks? I have mine, but it's kinda outdated. If anyone's interested, they are the following decks in EvaluateDecks: Carriers, Counter Wall, Quick Strike, Salvager Spam I, Trident Spam II.

What I see now in other factions' defense is mostly Pathrazer spam, Lucina strike, Ogre spam, Carriers, Emanuel. Skimmer spam, if lvl 12+. Discuss?

Also, I'm not sure if this should be posted in Surge decks or Defense decks subforum. But I have the same question about a surge gauntlet - that is, a set of surge decks that one can test their defense deck against. I know w_alloy has one. silent
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person3143
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Join date : 2011-12-06

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PostSubject: Re: Defense gauntlet   Defense gauntlet EmptySun Dec 25, 2011 7:30 am

Kfsw recently posted the def decks from IFS and MoM. Link: https://thelostwikingz.actieforum.com/t298-ifs-mom-defense-decks-2011-12-19

I would start with that, and either just run decks directly against that list or pare it down to basic archetypes. I personally haven't used eval decks much for this purpose, but I think it would be useful when I've got a bit more free time.
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Dustangel
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PostSubject: Re: Defense gauntlet   Defense gauntlet EmptySun Dec 25, 2011 7:32 am

Yeah, too slow to run against the whole list, and too lazy to break it down. I guess I'll have to do the latter. Just looking if someone mayhaps has already done the job.
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person3143
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PostSubject: Re: Defense gauntlet   Defense gauntlet EmptyMon Dec 26, 2011 6:28 am

Here's a list based mostly on Kfsw's post of top faction defenses (link above). Obviously, there are a lot of other defenses out there, as well as different variations of these decks, but I feel like this would be a decent start.

Notes:
Percentages are based on Kfsw's post and are very rough as it's tough to put many decks into one of these categories
I included Pathrazer fear as it is somewhat common in many factions. The two factions Kfsw posted (IFS and MoM) do not use this.

10% - Thad Skimmer: Thadius, Wasteland Skimmer(10)
(Other cards often substituted)

15% - Lucina Skimmer: Lucina the Wicked, Wasteland Skimmer(10)
(Other cards often substituted)

10% - Lucina Strike: Lucina the Wicked, Hunter, Predator, Ravenous Dredge, Tiamat, Pathfinder, Shapeshifter, Stealthy Niaq, Omega, Sharpshooter, Electromagnetic Pulse

10% - Atlas Strike: Atlas, Tiamat, Predator, Stealthy Niaq, Dozer Tank, Omega, Rifter, Shapeshifter, Mortar Bunker, Sharpshooter, Electromagnetic Pulse
(A lot of variation. Mostly fast strike/counter)

20% - Utopia Wall: Emanuel, Utopia Beacon(2), Bridge of Destiny, Holy Beacon(2), Gatling Tower(4), Prism
(Some use missile silos and CC, which might deserve its own category. Prism is often substituted)

10% - SC: Dracorex, Support Carrier(5), Bridge of Destiny, Elemental, Gorivore, Apollo, Deadblow

10% - Ogres: Dracorex, Sundering Ogre(8 ), Asylum(2)
(Lots of variation. This is a very basic version)

5% - GS Fear: Lord of Tartarus, Grim Specter(4), Warehouse(2), Asylum
(Typically run less than 10 cards. Probably to help with play order, but I haven't looked at it closely)

5% - Righteous Mix: Empress, Hierophant(2), Equalizer, Guerilla Leader, Vigil, Orbo the Wrathful, Revered Monk, Bridge of Destiny, Apollo, Pantheon Progeny
(Not sure how this works. Worth looking into)

5% - Raider Rally: Duncan, Command Center(3), Salvager(3), Dozer Tank, Bulldozer, Teslatank, Cannon Walker

0% - Pathrazer Fear: Dalia, Pathrazer(10)
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w_alloy
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Join date : 2011-10-30

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PostSubject: Re: Defense gauntlet   Defense gauntlet EmptyTue Dec 27, 2011 2:35 pm

When I test surge decks I usually use the most recent top factions decks list from kfsw. It may take some more time but reducing their lists down to fundamentals would be a difficult and time consuming task. Nothing beats the complexity of on-the-ground defenses of the top factions as they currently exist (unless you could somehow use trends to predict what their defense would look like in the future... but I digress). To help with the time issue, I usually reduce the number of trials for each deck down to 1-2k and just accept an error margin of a percentage point or two. If a deck works against the top two defenses, it is very rare that it will do significantly worse against any lower faction.

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w_alloy
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PostSubject: Re: Defense gauntlet   Defense gauntlet EmptyTue Dec 27, 2011 2:39 pm


As far as surge gauntlets to test defenses, I actually don't have a set one as I don't do this enough to have a set list, plus my opinion of good surge decks to test against is constantly changing. I just try to grab 1-3 variations from each major category which I feel is representative for current surge decks. If I have time I try to adjust the order to be appropriate for the deck I am testing against. I'll paste the (approximate) deck lists I used for the tests I recently posted in the defense thread in the general forum (note these are lacking a few minor types such as structure and anti-skimmer, a number of hybrid types, and I'm not sure about the strike decks):

SC
Dracorex, Apollo, Support Carrier, Elemental, Support Carrier, Support Carrier, Kyrios, Support Carrier, Support Carrier, Kyrios, Support Carrier
Dracorex,Apollo,Support Carrier(5),Elemental,Gorivore,Destructive Ram,Bridge of Destiny

Skimmer
Tabitha, Abominable Raksha, Wasteland Skimmer, Wasteland Skimmer, Rox Chainblade, Wasteland Skimmer, Wasteland Skimmer, Wasteland Skimmer, Executioner, Wasteland Skimmer, Electromagnetic Pulse
Dracorex,Ravenous Dredge,Wasteland Skimmer(6),Rox Chainblade,Executioner,Electromagnetic Pulse

Ogres
Dracorex,Necrogeddon,Sundering Ogre(5),Asylum(2),Abominable Raksha,Electromagnetic Pulse
Dracorex,Ravenous Dredge,Sundering Ogre(6),Asylum(2),Electromagnetic Pulse

Fear
Dracorex,Grim Specter(4),Plasma Field,Injection
Dalia,Pathrazer(10)

Strike
Atlas,Ravenous Dredge,Stealthy Niaq,Predator,Mortar Bunker,Tiamat,Fighter Jet,Electromagnetic Pulse(2),Arc Trooper,Bulldozer
Lucina the Wicked,Ravenous Dredge,Stealthy Niaq,Predator,Mortar Bunker,Tiamat,Hunter,Plasma Field,Pathfinder,Abominable Raksha,Electromagnetic Pulse


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